Dillon is also the founder and the producing director of MIRROR/FIRE Productions. Do we as a parent tell our children who they are? What does that look like? It just felt like, Oh, this is a good step. And I realized that once I tried to start learning more about non-binary, its like, Wow, we are so firmly, fundamentally wedded to this idea of this or that, male or female. Thats why today I really wanted to focus on when you are neither this nor that. Which is why they were the perfect muse for a mix of non-binary summer fashion. Sun: Thats great. The last question is the Hidden Gem, which is: In the however plentiful this cabinet is of non-binary representations that weve had in culture and it doesnt have to be fictional because sometimes its too sparse but is there something you can recommend to people who would like to enrich themselves with this theme, a hidden gem that you can recommend them to read, to watch, to check out? I have always felt non-binary, before I had the language to conceive or communicate what that was to other people. Taylor Mason (Asia Kate Dillon) has come a long way from first joining Axe Capital as an intern, working for Bobby Axelrod (Damian Lewis). Thats a tricky thing. And then people respond. The clothes are almost all vintage Thierry Mugler. White: Yes! And I think that holds true for the entire Billions world, which is, if whatevers going on with you doesnt in the way of you making money or you making someone else money, then its not really actually a big deal. In person, Dillon also exhibits an extraordinary amount of empathy: In conversation they (more on that pronoun in a bit) graciously express empathy for Donald and Melania Trump, and they show it whenas we grab a quick lunch for this interviewthey are approached by a rather bold young gentleman (who could have walked straight off the Billions set) for an all-too-presumptuously familiar chat. I interviewed a voice actor for a piece. March 31 is Trans Day of Visibility. That can be very powerful and helpful in the de-stigmatization of trans bodies. One show that I got hooked on during the pandemic was Good Trouble, which is a follow-up to Freeforms The Fosters. It said, female, gender nonbinary. Although it has been said that Taylors wardrobe is stereotypically masculine, I dont feel that way, I think its actually neutral. On a recent afternoon, Dillon ordered a half-mug of coffee, also black, and reclined barefoot in the pillow-dotted loft above the shop. I also think this conversation isnt just about who were seeing onscreen or larger cultural narratives changing. Check it out. Dillon identifies as non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. All of it to me is a great example of how it could go. And more importantly, whats the significance of having characters like the guys its mostly guys the characters at Axe Capital be able to normalize gender fluidity acceptance in this way? Asia finished the Meisner training program at The Actors Workshop of Ithaca and was the youngest student to enroll at the age of 16 while they were still in high school. I also imagine there are a lot of people on the Billions set trying to look like finance bros.I suppose so, yeah. The surgery didn't solve all of my issues, but it did offer a sense of peace and comfort that wasn't otherwise there. I would say there are certainly more non-binary characters being written, and there are more non-binary actors being cast in those roles. Maybe the food is trying to keep within the vibe of the world. Lets talk about your buzzcut: When did you first do it and why, and what does it feel like for you? I can't say I haven't looked in the mirror and said, ''Work, bitch.'. Instagram is a weird space. And thats what the term non-binary is about: Its more like a sphere that you can walk into, and it exists fluidly. And so you see a character like Bugs Bunny who dresses in drag. They are known for playing Brandy Epps in Orange Is the New Black (2013) and Taylor Mason in Billions (2016). They just know that this person appears in makeup and feminine attire, and a pronoun is never used. Asia Kate Dillon is one of the first non-binary gender stars on mainstream TV. I think, Actually, I do need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation, because there is perhaps a bridge to understanding here that will benefit people who dont have a voice, who cant walk down the street without being told to kill themselves.. If you are a white mother and you have a Black daughter, how do you talk to that child about who they are as a Black person in America? Sun: Im glad you mentioned Rutherford Falls, because that brings in something you talked about earlier about genre. White: Yes, exactly. Whatever hope Taylor gave to other people once Taylor appeared onscreen, Taylor gave me that hope and sense of self first., Dillon also discusses with host Rebecca Sun (THR senior editor of diversity and inclusion) their campaign to remove gendered acting categories from awards shows, a move that the Grammys, Gotham Awards, MTV Movie and TV Awards and Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have already done. The actor who plays Taylor from Billions wears a seamless mix of clothes (labels like menswear and womenswear need not apply) and talks Axe Capital, Trump, and playing a white supremacist. This episode is inspired by Billions star Asia Kate Dillon, who will join us in the latter half of the show to talk about their groundbreaking character, how they approach their roles and why acting awards categories should be gender-neutral. I felt really comfortable and safe this whole time, and that doesnt always happen. He is able to also hold respect for this person who presumably is the first non-binary person hes ever met, because he actually just sees Taylor as a tool that he can use to achieve his ultimate goal. I remember in middle school they were going to do Oliver! I was so excited to audition to play Oliver and then realized I couldnt, because I hadnt been assigned male at birth. I think Taylor knows who they are and knows what their talents are. Fast & Furious: Crossroads: Gameplay Trailer. Its important to me because it is me. Did you watch Billions before you were cast on the show?I didnt watch it before I was on it. But now I'm here, and I'm transgender. So when I encountered the character breakdown for Taylor, and it did say female non-binary, and of course Ive encountered the word female all my life, and I had encountered the word non-binary before, but in that moment I chose to look both of them up and encountered for the first time the clear explanation of non-binary as someone who identifies as neither a man or a woman, neither male or female, and then also female and male are an assigned sex at birth. If you see a non-binary character where the representation is just about their identity and/or they die in some horrific manner and/or they only have one episode, that is evidence to me that there was no non-binary person involved in that project except the actor who was cast. Last Call with Carson Daly (2002-2019) Actress Abigail Spencer ( The Sweet Life (2016) and Timeless (2016)); actress Asia Kate Dillon ( Billions (2016)); band Partybaby perform. I had to learn who I was. Asia Kate Dillion talks about acting alongside Dan Soder in 'Billions.'Hear more from Faction Talk on our app! Sun: And that really does emerge in so many different topics when weve been talking about inclusion is that these are sandboxes that are in some ways to use this overworn phrase in a genuine way a safe space to be able to explore some of these stories or identities that mainstream culture wasnt ready for yet. Dillon: Yes, I would say when I was first cast as Taylor and I was talking to Brian and David about the character, they told me that Taylor was going to be a major player in the show, that Taylor was going to play a really important role. Find Asia kate dillon stock images in HD and millions of other royalty-free stock photos, illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection. I dont want to give an excuse and say trial and error, but you do see a lot of errors on the interminable road of progress. Im just here to dole out punishment and go on with my day.. And those personal moments are important. Subscribe for full access to The Hollywood Reporter. And while their portrayals may or may not have always been respectful, intentional, progressive, I think that this idea that we do not always live within two spaces on a gender line has been persistent. Sun: Or even, since Billions, is there a change in the types of things that youre reading for? What we need to do is get rid of mens and womens sections and make sections that are like dresses for tall people, pants for short people, jeans for people with hips, you know what I mean? My relationship as a non-binary person to my gender which I dont even have a very specific label for, I dont consider myself gender fluid. I think there are a lot of valid criticisms of that character and what it laid the groundwork for and how it embodied a lot of harmful treatment of gender and non-binary identities in Hollywood. Since then, Ive had all different kinds of styles and colors, and for Orange Is the New Black I played a skinhead, so it worked for that. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter for nonstop inspiration delivered fresh to your feed, every day. This is who I am. And I applaud the Gotham Awards for abolishing their gendered acting categories. And so its really interesting to see some cool stuff thats happening in animation, very specifically in childrens animation, thats breaking that down and arguably at the forefront of our conversations about non-binary identity and gender non-conforming identities. (Laughs.) Im curious, though, whether or not we will see a trickle-down effect to non-binary performers getting to play non-binary characters or whether their roles will be along binary lines. The people that I worked with, they saw that when I got onstage and actually got to live in the clothing that I wanted to be in. The truth is, despite feeling profoundly happy right now and knowing how much privilege I carry, I am also scared. And you will frankly eliminate the likelihood that you have a non-binary character that Im going to go, God, you really need to do that over because that was bad.. I would say that elements of Bugs Bunnys representation have gender nonconformity, and that can apply to anybody, not just non-binary people. If youre pitching a show to an executive and an executive has a very rigid gender binary and doesnt really understand what youre saying, you could just be like, Well, theyre not human, so why would they have that binary? And that is an easier way to get that through and have that conversation. The statistics are staggering. Do you have a job? But I also think for people like me, Pat was a door to asking ourselves who we are and really starting to get comfortable even if no one else around us was get comfortable personally with not being in that binary, maybe not being the gender that somebody said we were, and maybe not even being the other gender option that somebody said we could be. Thats awesome. And its been awesome to see that so far, peripherally, they are integral characters to the storyline, the story isnt about their gender identity necessarily. I think about the concept of the bearded lady, which has been around forever. Its really about white characters getting through the door first. And that gender identity is placed on top of that assigned sex. Whatever that role is that speaks to me, if Im the right actor for that role, thats what will happen. I knew it would be incredibly impactful. I think thats honestly one of the most radical things about Ted Lasso. I still think that might be a good label if youre trying to describe it to somebody, but for myself, I dont feel like I have transitioned from one gender to another. My mom was a pop culture hound; all of my pop culture interests really derived from her and my relationship with her. That doesnt mean you should assume that persons gender identity. And I dont know what anyones is until they tell me. Asia Kate Dillon - Net Worth, Salary. I feel like I can talk to Brian and David about anything, ask them anything. But the thing about non-binary identity is that you know that youre neither of those. Thats how the majority of Americans learn about the queer community. It is something that I must cultivate and it is something that I must consciously do or it will go away. And I think Pat is really, really interesting, particularly for me, because when Pat was popular, I was young. I have three shows that I keep on rotation and Im very careful about what kind of media I intake, and how much I intake at once. (Laughs.). Pink is his associated color, and his weapons and powers are defensive things. Taylor is able to feel the most free when there are very clear boundaries. And if we are trying to award art that is representational of everyone, then we need to be representing everyone, and abolishing gendered awards is one part of the change that needs to happen. Asia Kate Dillon attends the Season 5 celebration of "Orange is the New Black" at Catch, June 9, 2017, in N.Y. Taylor Hill/FilmMagic via Getty Images, FILE I know Im being really specific, but I think its okay. And thats something thats kind of imposed on children. It's something everyone wants, to feel understood. And so just coming to an understanding that a body is a body, and also male and female as biological sexes are so much more complicated even than just male and female. How does that change your dynamic? The things that I've had to do medically to my body don't define me. Asia made their television show debut as the bald girl on the comedy-drama series Younger in 2015. So, to be honest, after Taylor was introduced, I was kind of bracing myself for some sort of subplot or at least a plot point that was revolving around bigotry, the kind of very special episode type of trope. So, Abbey, thank you for helping expand my understanding of this. It was surprising to me that nobody in the Billions universe has really struggled with or had trouble respecting Taylors gender identity. But Joey goes on this gender journey of realizing what their gender is, and they do it with a partner. Its very difficult for me to dismantle it, Ill be honest. Asia, thank you for letting me indulge my inner fan for so long. And theres all these different sorts of weird characters. To some people it feels a little dated, but I think that is really kind of the conversation that were having about the history of non-binary identity. And when it comes to non-binary identities, I think that also just holds true: White non-binary actors white characters, really, and thats really what this is. Im starting to see a few high-profile celebrities come out as non-binary. And I feel like Hollywood treats babies like props anyway. There was an episode of The Next Generation where the Enterprise visits a planet where the gender binary is prohibited. But I also think that sci-fi and fantasy are about places of imagination and exploration, and in the same way that animation is this place where we do not have to exist within the limits of humanness, its an incredible place to explore lots of things, things that we want to see, things that we want to be. Everyone Is Just Scrambling: Hollywood on Edge as Writers Guild Talks Go Down to the Wire, Beef Creators Break Silence on David Choe Controversy, W. Kamau Bell Interviews Multiracial Kids in HBOs 1000% Me: Growing Up Mixed Trailer (Exclusive), Warner Bros. Studios Celebrates 100th Anniversary With Diverse Shorts Re-Creating Warner Bros. So are we going to see some sort of distance and is it appropriate? But food tastes better out of a jar. And so it is important to have those stories, but growing up, and up until honestly a few years ago, those were the only stories that existed. For those who arent already familiar with this argument, I almost want to save time and just tell them to Google it. This site uses cookies to serve you better. I have gender fluid friends who say that theyre gender fluid, but also because some people arent really familiar with that very specific term, theyll just choose non-binary. Some friends are like, Nope, its not the same. But its always safest to use it as an umbrella term, and then very specifically ask somebody, What is your gender? 2.1 0. Its incredibly significant and the significance of it sits alongside something that is a bit difficult for me, which is the fact that according to GLAAD they have this poll about whether or not there have been any trans or non-binary people in a major Hollywood film because The Adjudicator, the character that I play, is never referred to as they/them, which are the pronouns The Adjudicator uses, thats what the script was changed to reflect that, it doesnt count as representation because nobody watching the movie knows that. Were all babies and then someone looks at whats between our legs and assigns us a sex, then a gender identity is placed on top. So I dont have to change my body, I can release she/her pronouns, I can use they/them. Im very curious to see what, for example, Joey Solloway, who I think is probably the most prominent non-binary creator in Hollywood they made Transparent and were a very respected indie film director prior what they will do now that they have come out specifically as non-binary and how to advocate for more voices in that space. And its pretty clear to me when Im engaging with people who arent coming from that place, who just arent coming from a place of love or who arent being genuine, and so because its generally fortunately for me pretty clear whos coming from where, Im able actually to put my energy into a place that feels worth it, where Im getting something out of the exchange too, versus talking to a brick wall that I know is really immovable. I like sphere Ive been using the word spectrum, but I think sphere is even more encompassing of all the different identities that can fall within it. I think that Taylors wardrobe is actually just very human and very neutral. I am a transgender female. Do you feel like were finally starting to see real-world and more grounded representations, where you dont need to Trojan horse it into an allegory of a non-humanoid and say this is an alien, this is a soda cup or a car, but non-binary people can exist in practical reality in seeing these characters in more realistic shows? Lets keep going. And, mind you, that is not always how trans people describe being trans or encapsulating the trans identity. Asia Kate Dillon wandered into a coffee shop near Brooklyn's Prospect Park looking like a fallen angel taking a personal day: Black shirt, black jeans, black sneakers, black liner circling. That was a real pleasure. You're not beautiful despite those things, you're beautiful because of those things, and [believing] that has to be an active conscious process. So thank you so much. These are things that are normally given to girls when we do superhero or fight fantasy stories. Neil Gaiman basically said, My angels and demons? Not to redirect to the trans conversation, but I think Pose as a show actually did a really incredible thing by centering trans people, making them leads, showing that they could be like Girlfriends, Friends, Sex and the City. Im also so thankful to my colleague, THR associate editor Abbey White, for coming on as this weeks guest expert to share what non-binary representation has meant to their own identity formation and to teach me about the genres that perhaps surprisingly have done pretty well with gender non-conforming inclusion. The discrimination towards trans people is rife, insidious and cruel, resulting in horrific consequences. Everyone has a gender identity, actually. Sun: No, I appreciate that. Particularly as someone who might not necessarily align with who their child is. As an actor, as a performer, do you have any preference towards playing characters whose gender identity matches your own? And to have people listen and be sensitive to them. Lets show some skin. Why they say getting the diagnosis later in life was a 'relief. And so now, having the opportunity to talk about it and have it printed is extraordinary for me, and it doesnt get tiring., One particularly notable moment of explanation was when Dillon was a guest on The Ellen DeGeneres Show. For playing the character Brandy Epps in the Netflix series. "I also ask for patience. But do you think it was significant that Taylor hasnt had a major plot line thats been centered around trauma or bigotry or that type of experience? I love wearing wigs. Nothing has come my way where Im like, God, that feels really awful. And that may just be because I havent seen it, like someone might call or write into your podcast and be like, Well, you have to watch this because it exists and its awful. And then I will, and Ill be like, Oh God, that is pretty terrible.. And then we take that with us as we get older. And it really feels synchronistic to me that Taylor came into my life at a time when I was really ready to say, I have to be brave. And so if you want to avoid being the answer to a do-over question, expand your universe to have it be more inclusive and look more like what the world actually looks like. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); You have entered an incorrect email address! Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. Thank you for your courage, your generosity and ceaselessly working to make this world a more inclusive and compassionate place. The thing about being non-binary is, you can be hairy and wear lipstick, and that is non-binary. Like you just said, the Gotham Awards just announced that theyre abolishing it, the MTV Movie and TV Awards, you were the very first person in 2017 to present a gender-neutral acting category, and I believe that both the Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have gender-neutral categories. Specifically as it pertains to gender identity. Im preaching to the choir, obviously, but the more diverse your writers room is, your production team is, the more diverse your whole project is, the more accurate your representation will be. Knowledge has changed over time. And Ive learned that sometimes you think theres going to be food when you get to set, and there isnt. I think its really easy to get distracted by whatever the current skirmish is when whatever the current skirmish is is always a distraction from whats at the base level. And then for the other half of the race, its reversed. Asia always wanted to play the role of a boy, which came true when they were cast as a boy at the age of 11 in their school play. And then what representation would I change? The gender binary does not exist. To see a trans body in this ideal spaceon a cover, in an adthese are spaces that have immense cultural power to dictate what is beautiful, what is glamorous, what is aspirational, what is sexy, what is clean. As I've lived as an openly trans person with the people I love most for many years, I did always wonder when I'd come out publicly. And that seems really radical, tucked within that very problematic representation. What does it mean for you to fall in love with someone, and they fall in love with you, under the assumption that you are one thing and youre actually the other? All Rights Reserved. And the pussy hats not all pussies are pink, but that association is totally exclusive, and not just of nonbinary people, but of trans women and people of color. Sun: It was really enjoyable. What do we have in the landscape right now? Im gonna wade into this. Giving other people time is important. Sun: That means a lot to me. Dillon: Yeah, I think its essential. I know for me it's something I'll be doing over again for the rest of my life. And I think the same thing applies when were talking about gender portrayals. Thank you for doing all the research you did before coming into this. White: The first thing that we should know about non-binary is that non-binary is not actually a gender. You can have non-binary people in comedy. Sun: I will give people a spoiler alert if I go into that. And even if theyre not coming with that, if youre getting non-binary actors, your vision of that character I think changes a little more because their identity can be so different from one person to the next. And that is a character of color in a show featuring indigenous people in a way that indigenous people havent really been represented before. In terms of the ongoing conversation around Taylors gender identity over the past four seasons, I would say there has been very little, because that is just one part of what makes up who Taylor is. But Taylor is not drinking Red Bull. Maybe because it feels like not a safe space. Thats a conversation about racism, and it feels weird, right? Sun: It unfortunately is. And so those are the opportunities that are available to them, so thats what they can go out for. Sign up for Yahoo Lifes daily newsletter, Who was Karl Lagerfeld? I think about the characters in Danger & Eggs, which was an Amazon series; Craig of the Creek, which has I think one of the highest numbers of non-binary characters outside of Steven Universe, which just blows everybody away because every gem in that is non-binary. At . To revisit this article, visit My Profile, thenView saved stories. Lets talk a little bit about definitions so that all of us can understand the parameters of what well be talking about today. I don't feel like I was put in the wrong body. White: I mean, I wouldnt say it looks like cisgender racial representation at all. Dillon: Totally. Im a marginalized person because Im nonbinary, but I carry white body privilege. Dillons Billions character of Taylor identifies as nonbinary as well a point that caused Dillon to weep with joy upon first reading the script. I would still argue that most non-binary representation is white, but theres progress. Its basically about a boy and his talking dog who go into this Land of Ooo. And Ive said this before there, there were a handful of times, particularly season two, season three, and there will occasionally still happen where theres some phraseology that comes out in a script or a certain word. Are we at a place where we accept and welcome trans writers, non-binary writers? And so for that not to be part of Taylors story on the show, to not have that special trope episode, its like, Thank goodness. Taylors everything is very well manicured and particular. Do you think its useful in times like this, or does it just serve to make bad people more palatable?Youve kind of hit on what the issue can be. Billions season five is currently back and airing on Showtime on Sundays. That would mean that those characters are continuing to be written and that they are continuing to be integral to whatever story theyre a part of. Is there a work that you would recommend? But I also dont think that means that we dont have characters of color that are non-binary. Our Place's Beloved Always Pan Is Officially Ready to Get Baked, The Best Chef's Knives Are a Cut Above the Rest. I know it saved my life years ago.". Dillon: When Im engaging in a conversation with someone who is really wanting to expand their own sense of what gender is and can be, and someone who is approaching that conversation with love and an open heart and with vulnerability, then I am totally happy to engage in a conversation with that person about my personal experience of my gender identity. Its a challenge and I love a challenge. And I wouldnt count Bugs Bunny as non-binary; I wouldnt say that. Sun: That is a perfect example. Its really quite extraordinary. ", "Non-binary is a term used by some people, myself included, who experience their gender identity as falling somewhere outside the boxes of man or woman," the actor explained. Cardigan by Maison Kitsun / Shirt by Agns B / Beanie by American Apparel / Necklaces, Dillon's own. Weve had Axe very matter-of-factly correct peoples pronouns and things like that. 55 Non-Binary People Explain What "Non-Binary" Means To Them. And what kinds of ongoing collaborations do you have with discussing this aspect of Taylors character and their storylines? Dillon: So you actually just gave an example of a thing that came to my mind that I want to say. "I love that I am trans. Your casual summer style inspiration is here. I very much do think they are. No. There are certainly situations where Im not correcting people. And I think you can kind of sniff that out. Because I want to keep my priorities in order and stay focused. Not to hark on animation, but you mentioned adult animation. Find Asia kate dillon stock photos in HD and millions of other editorial images in the Shutterstock collection.